Curse

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2009, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Alright, this is what we've come up with for a 1 man build for now, it hasn't been tested yet.

N/Rt Minion bomber/Resto

14-16 Death Magic
9 Soul Reaping
10 Restoration Magic

Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Putrid Bile
Xinrae's Weapon [Elite]
Spirit Light
Life
Protective was Kaolai
Death Pact Signet

Rt/N Channeling/Curses

14 Channeling Magic
11 Spawning Power
8 Curses

Boon of Creation
Spirit to Flesh
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Painful Bond
Splinter Weapon
Barbs
Rip Enchantment

Rt/X Resto/Communing

12 Restoration Magic
11 Communing
12 Spawning Power

Boon of Creation
Reclaim Essence
Armor of Unfeeling
Union
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Weapon of Warding
Flesh of my Flesh

Now, seeing as sabway is arguably the most popular/effective 1 man/3 hero build, I'm going to compare this to it, basing it off the builds.

Sabway

Sabway -

Offense:

- Spiteful Spirit (AoE)
- Minion bombing/Barbs (single target/AoE)
- Putrid bile (AoE)
- Splinter Weapon (AoE)

Defense:

- Aegis (AoE block)
- Protective Spirit (single target prot)
- Mend Body and Soul (single target heal/prot)
- Spirit Light (single target heal)
- Weapon of Warding (single target regen/block)
- Life (AoE heal)
- Protective was Kaolai (AoE heal)
-Xinrae's Weapon/Weapon of Remedy (single target prot/heal)
- Foul Feast (Condition transfer)

Utility:

- Enfeebling Blood (AoE weakness)
- Rip Enchantment (Enchantment removal)

________________________________________

Spiritway -

Offense:

- Signet of Souls/Bloodsong (Single target damage spirits)
- Painful Bond (Single target damage)
- Minon bombing/Barbs (single target/AoE)
- Putrid Bile (AoE)
- Splinter Weapon (AoE)

Defense:

- Union (AoE prot)
- Life (AoE heal)
- Mend Body and Soul (single target heal/condition removal)
- x2 Spirit Light (single target heal)
- Weapon of Warding (single target regen/block)
- Spirit to Flesh (AoE heal)
- Xinrae's Weapon (single target prot/heal)
- Protective was Kaolai (AoE heal)

Utility:

Rip Enchantment (enchantment removal)

So, spiritway vs. sabway:

Pros:

- Spirits outdamage Spiteful Spirit
- More powerful Splinter Weapon
- Spirit that reduces 525 damage to party
- More healing (single target and party)
- Better condition removal

Cons:

- Less effective energy management
- Less effective minion bombing
- No protective spirit/aegis
- Relies on spirits, which means AoE is dangerous. You have to be more careful with aggroing and pulling.

I'm tired, so I'm probably missing something.

So, on paper, this looks better than sabway. Going to bed soon, so if anyone wants to test it out, feel free.

Abedeus · Jun 22, 2009, 10:22 AM // 10:22

I noticed a huge cons in both builds.

Banishing Strike

I ran my Necromancer through Battledepths to Varajan Falls and I almost got wiped thanks to Banishing Strike spam.

edit: no icons for skills ;[

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2009, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Well, not every build works everywhere. In areas where there are dervishes with banishing strike, either set up defensive spirits far away (but not too far) and flag rits with offensive spirits to the side while you take aggro, or use another build.

zwei2stein · Jun 22, 2009, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I'm tired, so I'm probably missing something.

I miss enfeebling blood on curser, ideally instead of RiP enchant.

fenix · Jun 22, 2009, 12:42 PM // 12:42

No particular need for Enfeebling Blood in the build, so of course if you need it you could bring it on your primary (5 curses makes it 10 second Weakness). Rip is a better utility because it's a very good enchantment removal, something that really has to be in there based on some of the zones we've used the build in.

ranger spiker · Jun 22, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

test run on master of damage. 2 ranger spikers and 1 sin ( sin doing less dmg lol ) you did 10,594 damage over 32 seconds, for an average of 331 damage per second.

your best damage in a single second was 856, done at 27 seconds. death occurred after 3 seconds. <----( poor start ) i get a 2 second kill on this guy on average.

the ranger spiker took out the Harbringer of Nightfall (HM) in Nundu Bay in 9 seconds flat. no agro from the margonites when he reached half health. he died too quickly. the harbringer of nightfall only takes half damage from all sources. wiki says bring at least 2 human players as the vial of purified water only lasts 10 seconds. lol i needed only 9 to kill him. Masters in Hard mode on this mission.

Crassus Praetor · Jun 22, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Here are the template codes for the 1 man version at the time of writing:

Necromancer:
OAhjUsGaoSVBoBKgWbTOjTDTVVA

Ritualist Channeling/Curses
OASkcghj4Sujz0ydNLnVTMWZY3B

Ritualist Restoration/Communing
OACjAuhKpOOTlL08xJNncZsLGA

hope the att are right, quite hard to tell with without rune spread

Seri · Jun 22, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Out of curiosity, would this build work in DoA as a 2 man? Or what would you need to modify to get it to work?

Trader of Secrets · Jun 22, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28

No problem with actually trying it out

Life Bringing · Jun 22, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

I don't think your second rit in the one man is going to have a target for reclaim at the end of the battle. Is reclaim even worth it with one spirit?

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2009, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seri

Out of curiosity, would this build work in DoA as a 2 man? Or what would you need to modify to get it to work?

You'd most likely have to modify it to work. You'd definitely need more hex removal, and you'd have to watch out for the AoE with the spirits. I'm also not sure how well it would do against the big mobs of stygian at the beginning of stygian veil. But I'm sure with some modifications and very careful pulling/aggro it should be possible.

Quote:

I don't think your second rit in the one man is going to have a target for reclaim at the end of the battle. Is reclaim even worth it with one spirit?

You're right, I didn't think of that.

Reclaim is used not only to recharge the spirits, but as energy management. The one man build is a rough copy and I have to work on it still, so if you have any suggestions, feel free to tell.

Abedeus · Jun 22, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

I tried Assassin's Promise, but non-offensive (I.E. heroes that don't always cast offensive spirits) heroes have troubles picking targets for AP, so I had to constantly micro-manage it. It was more hassle than it was worth it, as it also meant spreading attributes...

Reclaim is much better. Too bad it doesn't recharge itself, but at least you won't cripple yourself otherwise.

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2009, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Yeah, AP is very unreliable on heroes. Having to constantly micro it is a hassle.

upier · Jun 22, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Rt/N Channeling/Curses

14 Channeling Magic
11 Spawning Power
8 Curses

Boon of Creation
Spirit to Flesh
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Painful Bond
Splinter Weapon
Barbs
Rip Enchantment

Given the fact that StF is nearby only I'd dump it. Along with all Spawning.
That way you can go Channeling/Curses, with Siphon Spirit as your e-management. Plus it opens up a slot for Enfeebling.
Unless of course you mean Feast Of Souls. Which is even worse since it will trash all spirits.

Vann Borakul · Jun 22, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

I tried out a 3hero version. I skipped curses for now. Might change.

Ritualist/X
13 Channeling (11+1+1)
11 Restoration (10+1)
11 Spawning (10+1)
- Signet of Spirits {E}
- Bloodsong
- Mend Body and Soul
- Spirit Transfer
- Painful Bond
- Spirit Siphon
- Boon of Creation
- Flesh of My Flesh

This one is a slight gamble. The energy management is supposed to help fuel Spirit Transfer, which heals a hefty 190 health in 1/4th a second, but for 10 energy. Spirit Transfer might be replaced by Spirit Light if it's too much energy, and then Spirit Siphon might be replaced.

Ritualist/X
14 Communing (12+1+1)
13 Spawning (12+1)
- Reclaim Essence {E}
- Pain
- Anguish
- Disenchantment
- Displacement
- Union
- Boon of Creation
- Armor of Unfeeling

Straight communing spirit rit.

Necromancer/Ritualist
14 Death (12+1+1)
10 Restoration
9 Soul Reaping (8+1)
- Animate Bone Minions
- Death Nova
- Putrid Bile
- Xinrae's Weapon {E}
- Spirit Light
- Protective Was Kaolai
- Life
- Death Pact Signet

Typical N/Rt minion bombing healer.

Don't know how well it is, I did a test and it seemed okay. Still can't tell if the energy management for Spirit Transfer is okay, or if a different idea is worth it.

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

With signet of spirits, boon of creation and spirit siphon, the energy management should be fine. Spirit siphon at 13 channeling is 14e (9e with energy cost), and signet of spirits with boon of creation up is 15e.

Quote:

Given the fact that StF is nearby only I'd dump it. Along with all Spawning.
That way you can go Channeling/Curses, with Siphon Spirit as your e-management. Plus it opens up a slot for Enfeebling.

Yeah, StF isn't really that good. As for dropping spawning, I'm not sure how energy management would be. Heroes don't tend to use spirit siphon that well, as in they'll use it beside the same spirit they just used it on. Worth a try, though.

Anyways, this is what I've come up with so far:

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team-_1_Man_Spiritway

I tested it a little. Haven't tried out the new channeling/curses rit, but the ritual lord seems to manage its energy decently. It uses spirit siphon poorly, so it's not going to have consistent energy. And as usual, the necro's energy management is fine.

speedy21589 · Jun 22, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I've been using a modified Channeling Rit:

15 Channeling
12 Smiting

Signet of Spirits
Spirit Siphon
Bloodsong
Agony
Splinter Weapon
Painful Bond
Strength of Honor
DPS/FomF

I hated spec'ing so much into Spawning Power just for Boon of Creation (and I guess more spirit health, but bleh). I'm pretty sure Spirit Siphon will be just as good for e-management, and this way I get to bring SoH for myself. (Obviously, this would be silly when both humans are casters/ranged)

mage767 · Jun 22, 2009, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Please post some screens of your 1-man 3-heros achievements in HM in some difficult areas. It looks good on paper, but without screeens, I'm still skeptical of any build.

Finally, the worst counter which will destory ANY rit based team is "Spiritual Pain". I was vanquishing Varajer Fells with my 3-hero build and the mesmer boss (from Path to to Revelations) destroyed my team in 3 second. Had to remove all spirits to take him out.

Also, please stop censoring my posts. You are stiffling discussion I am trying to add!

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2009, 11:25 PM // 23:25

As I said, the builds are still in testing, so I don't have screenshots. If you'd like, you can tell me some areas where 1 man discordway/sabway can complete, and I'll try the areas with my build. And yes, the build (like every build) does have counters.

And as I told you, I deleted the posts that did not contribute to the discussion. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it.

radbout · Jun 23, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

The idea is great, a hero spiritbuild would ftw. I do however think that the spiritrole should play less of then a huge part for as far as a one-man team goes.

I kinda doubt union is a good idea since it also gets triggered on minions, that means it will often die real fast (even with the effect from armor of unfeeling) and probably prove to be quite useless. I dont think a communing ritualist is really such a good idea...

Here's what I mean: (OACjAqhK5OOTlL08xJNncZsLG)
You waste a lot of points in spawning and communing for e-management and protection that doesnt last very long and is mostly wasted on minions. I think armor of unfeeling doesnt apply on newly spawned spirits and if that is the case it is used by heroes poorly. Even if it does work properly the protection of the spirits comes at the great cost of a still rather ineffective hero.

I think for a 1-man a channeling RT build is fine along with a minionhero. the spirits deal good suppressive damage and the minions keep the baddies away from the team and the spirits. Death pact on a mm? Thats just asking a horde of hostile minions killing your party (and your spirits) I would change that. Basicly I'd put the minion/prot role back on the mm and make a curses/resto nec and a channeling/resto/interrupt rit/me (cause interrupt is good for the e-management aswell). aka something like this:
(OANDUslfSyBVBKgoB4B1DvEVVA)
(OAWkMghqITKT18aWOxYTuhZG4iB)
(OAhjYgHb4O5B7wubcO5kmV1LGA)

Though what I made now has its obvious downsides I still think its a good alternitive for the communing hero for quite some reasons:
- this build has prot spirit which you can rely on, I really missed that.
- This build has interrupts that will prove to be usefull in alot of cases, also if theres need the amount of interrupts can be increased.
- This build has stronger minions, you also can put discord on (replacing aotl) for extra damage if you feel like it yet I prefer having stonger minions myself.
- this build has enfeebling blood (I also really missed that).
- if spirits and minions die, you still have other ways of dealing some damage.

Downsides:
- spirits have less "armor" and health so they die faster.
- the build generally still is poorly equipped with prot, this build has no blockskills so it relies heavily on EB.
- prolly more.